can you tell me how Hell in is
你能告诉我情况怎么样吗？
please all I can say is that she's in a
我只能说她的
serious
[Music]
condition I I never wanted anything bad
情况很严重，我不希望
to happen to her there's some stuff I
她发生任何不好的事情，有些事情我
don't entirely understand about how this
并不完全理解为什么
did happen today but I'll explain as
今天会发生这种事，但我 我会尽可能多地解释
much as I possibly can I didn't plan for
我没有计划让
any of this to happen quite the
这一切发生恰恰相反
opposite
[音乐]
can we trust our justice
我们能相信我们的司法
system to find out where reenacting an
系统来找出重演
entire real murder trial you chose to
整个真实的谋杀案审判的地方吗你选择
use this Hammer yes word for word with
用这个锤子是的词 和
actors to aim the shots and basically
演员说要瞄准镜头，然后基本上把
bash her brains in she's still shouting
她的脑袋砸进去，她还在喊叫，
on I got to put my hand over her mouth I
我得把手捂住她的嘴，我
don't know I don't know why I put my
不知道，我不知道为什么我
hands down her throat instead but just
把手伸进她的喉咙，但
as in a real Court the jurors are
就像在一个 真正的法庭，陪审员都是
Ordinary People oh God I just feel so
普通人哦天哪，我只是觉得很
sorry for I believe that there are two
遗憾，我相信
sides to every story I don't care what
每个故事都有两面性我不在乎
she said and in this groundbreaking
她说了什么，在这个开创性的
experiment there is a key
实验中有一个关键的
difference there isn't just one jewelry
区别，不只是一件珠宝
there's two both unaware of each other I
有两个人彼此都不认识，我
wanted to give him a hug is it crocodile
想给他一个拥抱
tears or not I don't want to do this
不管这是不是鳄鱼的眼泪，我都不想再这样做了，
anymore they'll watch the same
他们会看同样的
trial but will they reach the same
审判，但他们会得出同样的
verdict do you find the defendant guilty
判决吗？你认为被告
or not guilty of
有罪还是无罪？
murder
谋杀案，
a real life murder trial is about to be
真实的谋杀案审判 即将
restaged in full by actors in front of
由演员在
two different
两个不同的
juries this experiment is so
陪审团面前重新上演这个实验非常
important I've never seen what goes on
重要我从来没有看到过
behind closed doors in a jury no one
陪审团闭门后发生的事情没有人
has the jury system is the Cornerstone
有陪审团制度是
of our justice system but I think we
我们司法系统的基石但我认为 我们
need to have a conversation about
需要讨论一下
whether or not the jury is fit for the
陪审团是否适合 21
21st
Century 12 random people are kind of
世纪 [音乐] 12 个随机的人被随机地
thrown together and you're relying on
放在一起，你依靠
those 12 people to make the right
这 12 个人做出正确的
decision I think I'm quite logical
决定，我认为我非常合乎逻辑
rather than emotional one would like to
人们希望
think that juror would bring common
陪审员能够运用
sense but not everybody has got common
常识，而不是情绪化，但不是每个人都有常识，
sense
so we are completely different men and
所以我们是完全不同的男人和
women in emotions we're made up
女人，在情绪上我们有
differently they
不同的构成，他们
say the restage trial will take place in
说重新审判将在
this former courthouse in chelsford the
这座前法院进行 切尔斯福德
ministry of justice found that 70% of
司法部发现 70%
jurors could not remember key points of
陪审员记不住
law that they had been instructed
他们被教导过的法律要点，
on that's
这是有
problematic if if we didn't have
问题的，如果我们没有
punishment we would live in a very
惩罚，我们就会生活在一个完全
different
不同的
world when you do something
世界，当你做错事时，
wrong there has to be a price
必须
paid is mad because you could be sent an
付出代价，这是疯狂的，因为 你可能会把一个
innocent person to prison you have to be
无辜的人送进监狱你必须非常
really really sure because that is
非常确定因为那是
someone's life in your
某人的生命在你的
hands hi hi I'm fine thank you I'm Emily
手中嗨嗨我很好谢谢你我是艾米丽
I'm Kelly nice to meet you
我是凯利很高兴认识你
Emily the jurors are local to the area
艾米丽陪审员 是当地人
hello how are you hello darling all
你好你好吗亲爱的好吧
right hi and in an extraordinary
嗨在正义的一次非凡实验中
experiment in
Justice I Richard yeah to meet you they
我理查德是的见到你他们
are randomly split into two different
被随机分成两种不同的
jewelries one is the red jewelry Gary
珠宝一种是红色珠宝
Emily don't expect me to remember all
加里艾米丽不要指望我记住所有
your names
你的名字，
so and on the other side of the building
那么在建筑的另一边，
the blue jewelry so have you got
蓝色的珠宝，你有
children I do I have a
孩子吗？我有，我有一个
daughter neither jewelry knows the other
女儿，两件珠宝都不知道对方的
exists to stop them influencing each
存在，以阻止它们相互影响，
other I always think in any case how do
我总是想，无论如何，
you ever 100% know what happened Y no
你怎么能 100% 地知道 发生了什么事，但没有
one says yep you got that right well
人说，是的，你得到了 没错，做得好，
done no
exactly will these two different juries
不，这两个不同的陪审团
ultimately see this case the same way
最终会以同样的方式看待这个案件吗？
to remain hidden from each other is it
保持相互隐藏，
all the way down each jewelry has their
每件珠宝都有
own
自己的
staircase and entrance to the
楼梯和
courtroom they will observe the trial
法庭入口，他们将从那里观察审判
from specially designed soundproof
专门设计的隔
boxes entirely unaware of who is on the
音箱完全不知道谁在
other side of the Divide who's that
分水岭的另一边那个
man right uh good morning uh
人是谁对吧呃早上好呃
everybody the jurors will sit over 6
各位陪审员将坐在
days through the original trial word for
原来的审判中
word um before we start can you all look
逐字逐句嗯在我们开始之前你们都可以看
towards the the
向
dog you'll find um the the defendant
狗你会发现那个被告
who's called Mr John risdale and he is
叫约翰·里斯代尔先生，他就是那个案件的嫌疑
the man whose case view will be a trying
人，案件只会进行审理，
only names dates and locations have been
姓名、日期和地点已
changed to anonymize the case the
被更改，以匿名化案件，
defendant stands charged on this
被告被指控
indictment with
murder to this indictment he is pleaded
谋杀罪。 他
not guilty and it is your duty having
不认罪，听取证据后，你有责任
heard the evidence to decide whether
决定
he's guilty or not okay I'll pass it
他是否有罪，好吧，我会把它交给
over to
you may it please your honor Mr rydale
你，法官大人，赖代尔先生
is charged with the murder of his wife
被指控谋杀他的妻子
Helen as with the real case the jury are
海伦，就像真正的 陪审团
given bundles of evidence including
证据包括
photos and reports I'm going to ask you
照片和报告，我现在要请你们
to have a look at those
看一下这些
now photograph 007 is uh significant
照片，007 是很重要的，
ladies and gentlemen because that shows
女士们先生们，因为这显示了
the state of the room in
房间的
general blood I think is it yeah there's
总体状况，我想是的，到处都是
like things all over the place so they
血迹 所以他们
must have been having a proper fight
肯定在那儿大吵
bloody hell so on Monday the 11th of
大闹，所以
July of last year in the dining room of
去年7月11日星期一，在他们同住的房子的餐厅里，
the house they shared together in great
prompton the defendant attempted to
被告试图
strangle his wife for just two months
勒死他的妻子，仅仅两个月
and thereafter repeatedly struck her in
后，又多次
the face head area three times with an
用工业用锤子三次击打她的脸部头部，
industrial sized
hammer
I'll ask the Usher if they can um kindly
我会问 Usher 是否可以将
hand it round to the jury
它交给陪审团，
Now That's Heavy uh weighs about 1.4
Now That's Heavy 呃重约 1.4
kg a
公斤，这把
hammer that caused catastrophic and
锤子造成了灾难性的
fatal head injuries resulting in her
致命头部伤害，导致
death some 2 Days Later whilst in
两天后，在医院里，她去世了，
hospital the defendant later told the
被告后来告诉
police that he had just
警方，他刚刚
snapped he does not
发疯，他不
deny that he caused his wife's
否认他导致了妻子的
death he does however deny murdering her
死亡，但他否认谋杀了她，
hence that is the issue for you to
因此，这是你们要
decide the ultimate question for these
决定的最终问题。
juries is whether the defendant is
陪审团是否
guilty of murder
犯有谋杀
or
或
manslaughter murder means an automatic
过失杀人罪谋杀意味着自动被判
life sentence manslaughter could mean as
终身监禁过失杀人可能意味着
little as 2 years in
最少两年
prison ladies and gentlemen we'll we'll
监禁女士们先生们我们
break off now and digest what's what's
现在就暂停一下，消化一下到底
going
发生了什么
on okay so what do you think about that
好吧，伙计们，你们觉得怎么样
guys Jesus oh man it's horrible isn't it
耶稣 哦，天哪，这太可怕了，不是
yeah just imagine like holding the
吗？想象一下，拿着
Hammer as it smacks sh like smashes
锤子砸她，就像砸碎了
someone's skull like [\h__\h] the dents in
某人的头骨，就像操照片上的凹痕，
the picture like I couldn't stop
就像我无法停止
thinking about that she must have went
思考，她一定
through so much pain hit her in the head
经历了如此多的痛苦，击中了她
three times like that is brutal proper
像这样的头部三次是残酷的，真正的
brutal it just looks like an ordinary
残酷，它看起来像一个
guy but then what does someone look like
普通人，但是，一个
who's going to hit someone over the head
会
with a massive Hammer like I just can't
用巨大的锤子击打别人头部的人是什么样子的，我只是
help but feel sorry for it I think I'm
忍不住为它感到难过，我想 说实话，我
just in a little bit of shock about the
只是对
the ferocity of the hammer attack if I'm
锤子攻击的凶猛程度感到有点震惊，
honest cuz let's face it I don't
因为说实话，我不
understand how you can pick that up and
明白你怎么能拿起它，并且
know that what damage you were going to
知道你要用
do with it you know what led this man to
它造成什么伤害 你知道是什么导致这个人
get to this point that he felt it was
走到这一步吗 他觉得
acceptable to stangle and then that
勒死是可以接受的，但这样
didn't work killer so they've only been
做不行，所以他们才
married actually a couple of months only
结婚几个月，实际上才
married for two months yeah should still
结婚两个月，对，应该还在
be honeymoon period shouldn't
蜜月期，
it what is it that drives them to kill
不是吗，是什么驱使他们去杀人
the one person they're supposed to love
他们应该
more than anybody what are conditions I
比任何人都更爱一个人，
I'm fascinated by what what drives
我着迷的是什么驱使
people to do it some people get married
人们这样做，有些人结婚是
because they think it's going to solve
因为他们认为这会解决
the problem don't they absolutely yeah
问题，不是吗？是的
H there is no way that was manaugh yeah
H 不可能是 manaugh 是的
did you see the D in her head and like
你看到她头上的 D 了吗还有
the bruises was she provoking him we
那些瘀伤是她在挑衅他吗我们
don't know I just want to know exactly
不知道我只是想知道她到底
what was said I don't care what she said
说了什么我不在乎她说了什么
murder he went and got a hammer and hit
谋杀他就去了 然后用锤子敲了
her in the head three times if she said
她三次头，如果她说了
something yeah but if she said something
什么，是的，但是如果她说了什么，
if she said something and he and he hit
如果她说了什么，他和他打了
her once fair enough but we don't know
她一次，足够公平，但我们不知道
what she said but remember he strangled
她说了什么，但记得他先勒死了
her first and then hit her in the head
她 然后打她的头，
yeah people have strong opinions yeah
是的，人们有强烈的意见，是的，
like Sonia's reaction was not what I
就像索尼娅的反应不是我所
expected I feel like there was
期望的，我觉得 就像
definitely something that triggered
肯定有什么东西会引发你的
emotions you have to be careful
情绪，你必须小心，
yeah I have been in a relationship where
是的，我曾经经历过一段
other people would have run away there's
别人会逃跑的关系，有
a lot of women that behind closed doors
很多女人在关上门后
they're suffering mental or phys
遭受着精神或
physical abuse the most Charming of men
身体上的虐待，最迷人的男人
can be the worst kind of
可能是
man I have been in a
我遇到过的最糟糕的男人，
situation where my life could have
在这种情况下，我的生活
easily gone South um this was extreme
很容易就走向了糟糕的境地，嗯，这太极端了，
because he feared that he was going to
因为他害怕
lose me and he thought well if I can't
失去我，他认为如果我
have you nobody else is going to have
得不到你，别人也不会得到你 为了得到
you so he was literally trying to throw
你，他实际上是想把
me over a
我扔下
balcony it was a mad
阳台，这是一件疯狂的
thing you are accountable for every
事情，你要为你的每一个
action you take people can't just go
行为负责，人们不能
around killing people and there's no
到处杀人，而且没有任何
consequences you know if he hadn't
后果，你知道如果他没有
thrown me off that balcony then people
把我扔下去 那个阳台，那么人们
would have been at my C case it could
就会在我的 C 案上，可能
have
been
是
uh welcome
呃欢迎
back we'll get straight on with the case
回来我们直接开始讨论这个案子
now a real life murder trial is being
现在一个真实的谋杀案审判正在
restaged with
重新上演，
actors in front of two juries who are
演员们在两个陪审团面前，他们都不
both unaware of each
知道
other as I indicated earlier the
正如我之前指出的那样，
defendant does not deny that he
被告并不否认他
unlawfully killed his wife
非法杀害了他的妻子，
he is therefore saying well I accept
因此他说我 承认
that I'm guilty of manslaughter but I
我犯了过失杀人罪，但我对
dispute that I'm guilty of murder now
谋杀罪提出异议。现在，
you may think on the basis of what's
根据目前所说的情况，你可能会认为
been said so far that that's unlikely to
这不太可能
be in dispute but the law does provide
引起争议，但法律确实提供了
what's known as a partial defense to
所谓的部分辩护。
murder which is described as loss of
谋杀被描述为失去
control the defense are likely to ask
控制，辩护方可能会要求
argue that loss of control does
争辩说失去控制确实
apply it is my role to satisfy to you
适用，我的职责是让你相信
that it doesn't
它不
apply when you are considering loss of
适用，当你考虑失去
control it's somebody who literally is
控制时，这是一个字面上的人
not in control of their body at that
无法控制自己的身体，
time who is just goes into this other
只是进入了另一个
place who really just doesn't actually
状态，无法正常
function you know with with sound
运作，
mind and loses
失去理智，
it you can kind of oppose that to being
你可以将其与
very very very angry and being in
非常非常愤怒和控制相反
control of what you're
doing I'm sure some people would say
我相信有些人会说，
that loss of control should not be
available to any
任何
defendant but in some circumstances you
被告都不应该失去控制权，但在某些情况下，你
can imagine loss control could be a
可以想象失去控制权可能是一个
reasonable verdict a a something that is
合理的判决，这是
momentary uh that is done under enormous
暂时的，呃，那是 在巨大的
pressure losing the ability to control
压力下失去控制
control
yourself doesn't happen very often and
自己能力的情况并不常见，
I'd say it's a high bar but it's
我想说 这是一个很高的标准，但这是
possible and it should therefore be
可能的，因此法律应该为
available in law to a defendant who
might find themselves in that very
可能处于这种
situation what is loss of control rage a
情况的被告提供，什么是失控愤怒，
it losing your head but he just probably
失去理智，但他可能只是突然
snapped out and that was
醒悟过来，那是
it many years ago I had a temper and I
很多年前的事了 我发脾气了，我
smash Cy I've thrown it to my wife well
打碎了Cy，我把它扔给了我的妻子，
have you actually lobed like out a wall
你真的像从墙上扔出去一样
yeah i' I've rown a whole cup of copy
吗，是的，我把一整杯咖啡都倒
out her oh bloody yeah and plate and
在了她身上，哦，该死的，是的，
then I apologize to her I felt
然后我向她道歉 我感到
guilty I could fly off for something
内疚，我可以为了一件简单的事情而飞走，
simple I think in my mind I used to
我认为在我的脑海里，我曾经
cause an argument just for the sake of
为了它而引起争论，
it just to sort of get rid of built up
只是为了摆脱内心积累的
not anger uh energy inside but then have
能量，不是愤怒，但是你有没有
you used the hammer that's the
用锤子，那是
difference is it try I'm pled I have
区别在于尝试我恳求我
smashed the coffee cup but not like at
打碎了咖啡杯但不是像
someone but like smashed it in the sink
某人而是像在水槽里打碎了
cuz I've been a bit mad I have smashed
因为我有点生气我打碎了
some ink or I'm punching the air or
一些墨水或者我在打空气或者
something kicking a door maybe I don't
踢东西 门也许我不
know but I've never actually blacked out
知道，但我已经 从来没有真正昏过去
and I don't know what I'm doing it's
，我不知道我在做什么，这是
your rage it's your rage you have to be
你的愤怒，这是你的愤怒，你必须
accountable for your own actions like
对自己的行为负责，
regardless of what youve done you have
不管你做了什么，你都必须对
to be held accountable for what you have
done you've heard the Red Mist situation
自己所做的事负责 听说过红雾事件，
people that get to a point where they
人们到了一定地步，
actually don't know what they're doing
实际上不知道自己在做什么，
I've never had anything like that I've
我从来没有遇到过这样的事情，我
got angry and I can understand why you'd
很生气，我能理解为什么你
want to work someone who's done wrong to
想和一个做过这件事的人一起工作
you at your family and I could imagine I
在你的家庭里对你做错了，我可以想象我
would then go into a Red Mist I mean I I
会进入一个红色的迷雾，我的意思是我
see red and that's it then I go into an
看到了红色，就是这样，然后我就会采取
action and that's not something I in
行动，这不是我能
control I have a foul temper for me to
控制的，我脾气暴躁，
get angry is I'm at the point where I
生气是 我现在
see Red Mist and I can't stop that's to
看到红雾就停不下来了，这让
me angry 10 years ago I actually
我很生气，十年前我根本
wouldn't be able to stop because I
停不下来，因为我
wouldn't know what I was actually doing
不知道自己到底在做什么。 很
I I've been like that for a long time
长一段时间以来，
but it's been other people that have
都是其他人
stopped the situation and without that I
阻止了这种情况，没有他们，我
don't know what the extent would be
不知道
you'll be able to put yourself in his
你能把自己放在他的
position I know what I was like and I
位置上到什么程度，我知道自己是什么样的人，我
hate myself for it and now I believe
恨我自己，现在我相信
that there are two sides to every
每个故事都有两面性，是
story what what led him to go to the
什么导致他去
next step that's that's what I'm
下一步，这就是我
interested
感兴趣的
in
a bit about Helen
一点，关于海伦·
risdale at the time of her
里斯代尔，她去世的时候，
death she was a 34-year-old uh mother of
她是一个 34 岁，三个孩子的母亲，
three uh she'd had previous
她有过前任
relationships and at the time of the
，在
killing her three children in fact lived
她被杀的时候 三个孩子实际上
with their respective fathers uh
和他们各自的父亲住在一起，
although they regularly visited her at
尽管他们经常去她家看望她，
her
home the defendant
at the time a 39-year-old father of two
当时的被告是一名 39 岁的父亲，有两个孩子，
from a previous
是与前任
relationship his two children lived with
有染的，他的两个孩子和
their mother but used to stay with the
他们的母亲住在一起，但过去一直和被告住在一起
defendant each
每个
weekend as part of the prosecution's
周末，作为控方
evidence witness statements are read out
证据的一部分，证人证词都会
in court ladies and gentlemen Jan
在法庭上宣读，女士们先生们，简·
Romford a retired lady at page five of
罗姆福德，一位退休的女士，在
your bundle uh says
你们文件第五页，呃，我说
this I provide this statement to the
，我向警方提供这份证词，
police in relation to an incident at a
涉及
neighbor's house in bixley farm
比克斯利邻居家发生的一起事件 农场
Cottages I've known John since he moved
小屋我认识约翰，因为他搬来
about 15 years he's always been a nice
搬去 15 年来，他一直是一位
friendly neighbor he's self-employed
友善的邻居，他自谋职业，
works from a workshop in the back Garden
在后花园的工作室工作，
believe he makes sculptures he's got a a
相信他制作雕塑，他
furnace in the
在
workshop Helen moved in with John just
工作室里有一个熔炉，海伦去年圣诞节前搬去和约翰一起住，
before Christmas last year far as I'm
据我所知
aware two of them always seemed
意识到他们两个似乎总是
happy today I've been home all day about
今天很开心我整天都待在家里关于
qu 3 I was standing outside my kitchen
qu 3 我站在厨房
porch when I heard what sounded like a
门廊外面，突然听到
glass smashing outside in the back
外面后花园里传来玻璃破碎的声音
Garden seconds later I heard a louder
几秒钟后，我听到一声更大的
crash between the two smashes I heard
撞击声 两声巨响后，我听到
someone making a dull oh sound as if
有人发出沉闷的“哦”声，好像
someone was in
有人在
pain I shouted across to her are you all
痛苦中，我向她喊道，你还
right
好吗，
Helen no
海伦，没有
reply I didn't hear anything else but
回答，我什么也没听到，但
the furnace was on and it's fairly
炉子开着，而且
声音很大，
loud your honor I next propose to call
法官大人 我接下来建议打电话给
uh Mr toor
呃托尔·
Nelson toor Nelson worked for John
纳尔逊先生托尔·纳尔逊为约翰工作，
helping to make metal work
帮助制作金属
sculptures he witnessed the after the
雕塑，他目睹了
math of the
杀戮之后的数学运算，
killing the bulk of your work was with
你的大部分工作是与
or or was at the time with John risdale
或当时与约翰·里斯代尔一起完成的
that's correct did you speak to John
是的，你跟约翰
about his his uh his relationships about
谈过他的关系，关于他的
about personal matters at all Yes um I
个人问题吗？是的，我
was aware that there were at some point
知道在某个时候，我们的关系出现了一些
um difficulties in the
困难，
relationship that it was
uh well difficult difficulties and what
嗯，困难，
did John tell you
约翰跟你说过
if anything that he was going to um uh
什么 他会
what to deal or or cope with these
如何处理或应对这些
difficulties I think he told me that he
困难，我想他告诉我他
loved her very deeply and that uh they
非常爱她，他们
somehow would come through it um I
会以某种方式度过难关，我
believe also there were taking steps to
相信他们也会采取措施
seek uh professional help and guidance
寻求专业人士的帮助， 指导
can I go straight then to the 11th of
我可以直接去
July that's a Monday
7 月 11 日，那是星期一
morning uh what did you do that morning
早上呃你那天早上做了什么
please we were preparing to melt iron uh
我们准备熔化铁呃
to to pour iron for some um some molds
倒铁一些嗯一些模具
yes sculptur describe that word it's uh
是的雕塑描述这个词它呃
potentially dangerous and also
潜在危险而且 天气
uncomfortably hot it's
很热，让人
stressful any problems with John
感到很紧张，约翰有什么问题吗，
anything unusual at that time the day
当时有什么不寻常的事情吗，这一天一
started normal um normally uh but as it
开始很正常，嗯，正常，但是随着
um went on I was aware that he seemed to
时间的流逝，我意识到他似乎
be under even more uh more pressure than
承受着比诺姆更大的压力
he Norm would have been in on on such a
在这样的
day and I did at some point ask him and
日子里，我确实在某个时候问过他，
he said that there were problems in the
他说
house uh regarding him and Helen they
家里出了问题，他和海伦之间，他们
were having some discussion um believe
正在讨论，嗯，相信
they were they were talking in the house
他们正在家里谈话，
uh but I don't know I wasn't I wasn't
但我不知道 我当时不在
there and I was standing in the doorway
那里，我正站在
facing the entrance door to the Caravan
大篷车入口处的门口，
and John came in and the U he placed a
约翰走了进来，他把一把
hammer on the bench uh in front of
锤子放在我面前的长凳上，然后
me and he said
他说，
uh that's it I've killed
就是这样了 我杀了
her describe what you could
她，描述一下你
see it had the blood and also some black
看到的东西，上面有血迹，还有一些黑
hair on it and um I was left very
头发，嗯，我当时非常
confused and I thought this was all some
困惑，我以为这一切都是
kind of a joke but um
开玩笑，但嗯，
slowly I came to the realization that uh
我慢慢意识到，呃，
what he told me was the
他说的 我说的是
truth I believe the first thing I said
实话，我相信我对约翰说的第一件事
to John was that you realized that I
就是，你意识到我
have to call the
police how would you describe John at
报警，你会如何形容约翰，
this point he was very very pale there
他当时脸色非常苍白，
were beads of sweat on his brow do you
额头上冒着汗珠，你
remember John saying anything to you
记得约翰说过什么吗
then concerning h
那么关于
he um he said that uh I believe it was
他说的，嗯，我相信是
on the way into the house that he said I
在进屋的路上，他 他说我
don't want her to
不想她
live not
活着，不是
you on the hammer there was actual
你在锤子上有真正的
pieces of Flesh you have to hit so hard
肉块你必须用力敲打
for you know what I mean to stick onto
你知道我的意思粘在
it as well and he said I don't want her
上面，他说我不想她
to live yeah there you go there you go
活下去，是的，就是这样，是
yeah that's very uh condemning but it is
的，这非常具有谴责性，但这是
that against her or is it for her what
针对她还是对她有利，
you're saying because she was so wounded
你说因为她受了重伤，这
could have been an act of sympathy you
可能是一种同情的行为，你
know what I'm
知道我在说什么吗 我
saying I don't want her to live it could
不想让她活下去，这可能是出于
be some sort of
某种
sympathetic thing for whatever reason
同情，无论出于什么原因，
you can say one thing not but not I
你可以说一件事，但不是，我
can't see it being said from that but we
看不出这是从那里说的，但我们
don't know I'm not going to jump to
不知道，我不会跳到
conclusions like the
结论就像
others you we have to listen to all the
其他人一样，我们必须听取所有的
evidence before we can decide that's
证据，然后才能决定那是
having a moment and then there's bashing
一时冲动，然后
someone's head in that's murder you
有人砸碎了头，那是谋杀，你
haven't heard what she's done this what
没听说过她做了什么，
me I just don't really care what she's
我不在乎她做了什么
done to him yeah but you you have to
对他做了，是的，但是你必须
what happens if what she did is the
如果她所做的是
reason why he he
他之所以会
flipped we're just all not really
改变主意，只是我们都不太
agreeing we're all entitled to our own
同意，我们都有权表达自己的
um thoughts and opinions you know it's
想法和意见，你知道
it's a it's a jury there's meant to be
这是一个陪审团，应该有
debate but Aaron is trying to like
辩论，但亚伦试图粉饰
almost sugar coat it a little bit in my
它 在我
opinion John said I don't want her to
看来，约翰说我不想让她
live I think it's
活下去，我认为这是
murder the act itself is a violent act
谋杀，这种行为本身就是一种暴力行为，
exactly so as far as I'm concerned he
所以在我看来，他
murdered
谋杀了
her I think a few in the jury they heard
她，我认为陪审团中的一些人听到了
hammer and head and they just assumed
锤子和头部的声音 他们
murder straight away without even you
直接认定这是谋杀，甚至没有
know hearing any evidence he's got kids
听到任何证据表明他有孩子。
to kill someone you've basically now
杀人者现在基本上
will not be able to see your kids or
不能再见到自己的孩子，或者
only see your kids for a certain amount
只能在一定时间内见到自己的孩子，这
of time something very traumatic had to
一定是一件非常痛苦的事情
have happened it's not the same
发生了不一样的
circumstances but break up with my ex
情况，但和我的前男友分手
and not not seeing my child for for
，多年没见过我的孩子，
years you know plays a big part in in in
你知道，这在很大程度上影响了
how I judge people different people are
我如何判断一个人，不同的人
going to relate to different parts of
会对案件的不同部分产生不同的看法，
the case some people might relate more
有些人可能会 更多
to to Helen others might relate more to
与海伦有关，其他人可能与
John swings and roundabouts M guys I'll
约翰有关，摇摆和旋转木马 M 伙计们，我会
see you guys tomorrow see you tomorrow
见到你们的 明天见，明天见，
bye the end of the first day of the
再见，审判第一天结束，
trial go home I'm naked yeah done dying
回家，我赤身裸体，是的，
for a beer both jewries have been
为了啤酒而死去，两个犹太人都已经
released first day interesting fact that
发布了第一天，有趣的事实是，
a human could actually do that to
一个人实际上可以对别人这样做，
someone else I'm definitely like heavily
我' 我
invested now I did not think I'd be
现在肯定投入了很大精力，我没想到我会
going home and like thinking about this
回家，而且想了
so much like it's quite intense it's
很多，感觉很紧张，
some fun old [\h__\h] goes on in P ass he's
P 屁股里发生了一些有趣的老事，他是在
be the front door seeing John like he's
前门看到约翰，好像他
made no eye contact he's like his head
没有眼神交流 他
down like I just don't think he's
低着头，我觉得他
holding himself very well but yeah
控制不住自己，但是是的，
there's a lot for me to go home and
think about tonight and like it's this
今晚我回家要考虑很多事情，就像
whole loss of control element that I'm
我正在努力应对的这种失去控制的因素，
struggling with that's what I've got a m
这就是我 我得到了一个 m，
over it's literally over this
它实际上就在这座
bridge it's been very
桥上，这非常
interesting hello mate can I um P Shandy
有趣，你好，伙计，我可以吗，嗯，P Shandy，
please
请问
and did he lose control um from a legal
他是否失去了控制权，嗯，从法律
perspective that's crucial for me cheers
角度来看，这对我来说至关重要，欢呼，
fell thanks mate cheers thank you my dad
谢谢，伙计，欢呼，谢谢你，我爸爸
was very um
非常，嗯，
temperamental he came from a military
喜怒无常，他来了 来自 军事
background very strict very regime and I
背景，非常严格，制度非常严格，我
think I learned how to polish my shoes
想我
by the age of about
four I just felt like I was living on
四岁左右就学会了擦鞋，我只是觉得我生活在
the edge of just not understanding why
边缘，不明白为什么
someone would be like like that to me
有人会这样对我，
I'm their child I'm their son why would
我是他们的孩子 我是他们的儿子，你为什么要
you treat me like
that and I think a lot of that was
那样对待我，我认为这很大程度上是因为
frustration frustration of his own
他对自己的
upbringing um his dad was an alcoholic
成长经历感到沮丧，他的父亲是一个酒鬼，
he'd quite often be woken up 6:00 7 in
他经常在早上 6 点 7 点
the morning being beaten by his dad had
被打醒 他爸爸
coming
drunk I believe people become who they
喝醉了，我相信人们
are through the series of life so I'm
通过一系列的生活成为他们自己，所以我
interested in it from John's perspective
对从约翰的角度来看这件事很感兴趣，
why why did he do what he did to someone
为什么他要对
that he allegedly loved for me I need to
他据称爱的人做那样的事，我需要
find that out there has to be a why
在那里找到答案 必须有一个为什么
there has to be a
必须有一个
why the magic of the jury system is it's
为什么陪审团制度的魔力在于它
extremely
非常
democratic the problem about the jury
民主，但陪审团
system though is of course an element of
制度的问题当然是
chance in all of this there's no getting
所有这一切中的一个偶然因素，这是无法
away from it I always think when I see a
摆脱的 我总是觉得当我看到
jury filing into court well this is
陪审团进入法庭时，这是在
spinning the wheel of justice and you
转动正义之轮， 你
might get lucky or you might
可能会走运，也可能不会
not hi hi you okay yeah you I've got
嗨嗨你好是的你
loads of things I was thinking of last
我昨晚有很多事情在想你
night hello want
好想
know I can never forget a story I read
知道我永远不会忘记我读过的一个
about an Italian man and who murdered
关于一个意大利男人谋杀
his wife because she could never get the
妻子的故事 因为她永远吃不到
spaghetti Al there was a case recently
意大利面条，最近有一个案件，
about that 78-year-old going killed his
一个78岁的老人要杀了他的
wife got to the point where he just had
妻子，他受
enough of her moaning have you not heard
够了她的呻吟，你没听说过
a
divorce it's day two of the trial how
离婚吗，这是审判的第二天，
old was John I didn't get how old John
多大了 是约翰，我不明白约翰有多大了，
was Helen was 34 year old with three
海伦 34 岁，有三个
kids overnight the jurors have been
孩子，一夜之间，陪审员们一直在
reflecting on details they saw and heard
反思第一天看到和听到的细节，
on day one the state of the GFF was a
GFF 的状态
bit M it I kind of expect a Farmhouse to
有点 M，我有点期待农舍
look like that I don't could it be that
看起来我不明白，难道
he's sick to death of living in this
他已经厌倦了住在这个
[\h__\h] hole and she's not doing anything
破地方，而她却没有做任何事情，
about it is that why he's all of a
这就是为什么他
sudden lost his temper and thought I
突然发脾气，认为我
can't cope with this no more we don't
无法应付这个不 我们
actually know much about Helen though do
实际上对海伦了解不多，但我们
we her children didn't live with her
对她的孩子们了解多少 没有和她住在一起 他们
they live with their retrospective dads
和他们过去的父亲住在一起
three children by different dads all I
三个孩子是不同父亲所生 我只
know is she don't keep her legs shut
知道她不经常闭上双腿 是的，是
very
often yeah yeah yeah she's had a few
的，是的，她有几次
gazes isn't she we ran around about a
凝视，不是吗 我们跑来跑去
few times are they talking about are
几次 他们是在谈论
sleeping with men that's really pissing
和男人睡觉吗？这真的让
me off there's certain people on the
我很生气，珠宝上有一些人，
jewelry that I wouldn't gravitate to on
我不会像平常一样被吸引，
like a normal day like day-to-day life I
就像日常生活一样，我
just wouldn't how you sitting there
只是不明白你怎么坐在那里
blaming the victim like you don't even
责怪受害者 就像你甚至还不
know the full story yet and I just don't
知道整个故事，我只是不
agree with that people have said very
同意人们
sexist things here and I haven't really
在这里说非常性别歧视的话，我并没有真正
retaliated because everyone bred up and
报复，因为每个人都长大并
said and I thought that's not point in
说过，我认为说我没有意义，
saying I kept going a bit quiet things I
我一直 有点安静，我当时
was like I I didn't think being part of
想，我没想到成为珠宝的一部分
a jewelry would be as different ult as
会如此不同
it is and that everyone would have so
，每个人都会有这么
many different opinions and I just can't
多不同的意见，我只是不
see where they're coming from it's not
明白他们从哪里来，不是吗
respectful and yeah I'm I'm quite
是的，我
shocked by that
对此感到很震惊
actually regardless it doesn't matter
不管怎样，
many medic it doesn't matter it doesn't
很多医生都无所谓，
make a difference whether it's murder or
不管是谋杀还是
man fingers cross it
男人手指交叉，都没关系。
doesn't back in the
回到
courtroom T's testimony resumes with the
法庭，T 的证词在
the aftermath of John's
约翰袭击的后果中恢复，
attack so John puts that hammer down
所以约翰 放下锤子，
he's standing at the doorway or or just
他站在门口，或者刚
coming into the Caravan and and said
走进商队，然后说，就
that's it I've killed her yes
这样，我杀了她，是的，
yes you followed John into the house
你跟着约翰进了房子，是
yeah uh describe what you were able to
的，呃，描述一下你
see within the house it was a disorder
在房子里看到了什么，一片混乱
everywhere with a crushed crookery all
到处都是被压扁的弯角，
around the kitchen and on the floor and
厨房周围和地板上，
uh everywhere really um and
呃，到处都是，嗯，
them and uh I soon saw Helen and what
嗯，我很快就看到了海伦，
condition was she in there was a hole in
她当时的情况是什么样的？
the side of her head and then
她的头侧面有一个洞，然后
um when John felt her neck um she made a
嗯，当约翰摸她的脖子时 嗯，她吸了
sort of intake of breath and the rasping
一口气，呼吸
uh breath and a gurgling noise and um at
声刺耳，还有咕噜声，嗯，就在
that point I uh I realized that she was
那时，我意识到她
uh still
还
alive I think it then that you go out of
活着，我想那时你就
the house to make the call 999 yes prior
出门打电话了 999 是的，在
to the police
警察
arriving did you have any further
到达之前，你有没有
conversation with John I believe I I
和约翰进一步交谈过，我记得我
asked him at some point uh why did he
问过他，呃他为什么
reply his reply was suppose uh um
回答他的回答是假设呃嗯
incomprehensible Hilton
难以理解的希尔顿
请
you entered through the back gate uh
你从后门进入呃
where was the defendant please as I'm
被告当时在哪里？当我
walking up the Garden Path he was
走在花园小径上时，他正在
waiting by the Caravan and please
大篷车旁等候。请
describe how he appeared when you first
描述一下你第一次
approached him when I first saw him he
接近他时他的样子。我第一次见到他时，他
was very
calm uh he was very still and at that
冷静，呃，他非常安静，就在那时
the point he wasn't moving at all and as
他一动不动，
he was standing so still and so calm and
站着一动不动，很平静，
he weren't displaying any warning or
没有表现出任何警告或
danger signs uh I decided as as he'd
危险的信号，我决定，因为他已经
seen me and he was fully aware I was
看到了我，他完全知道我在
there to um to walk up to him and and
这里，嗯，要走路 走到他面前，
introduce myself I said what's happened
自我介绍，我说发生了什么事
and he said I've done something really
，他说我做了一件非常
bad I've hit my wife with a
糟糕的事，我用锤子打了我的妻子，
hammer can you see if she's all right I
你能看看她是否没事吗，我
won't run
不会
away I've opened the door and in the
逃跑，我打开了门， 在
middle room I've seen the the victim
中间的房间里，我看到受害者
laying on the
躺在
floor do you see blood leading up from
地板，你看到血从地板流到
the floor
up to the wall is is that right that's
墙上了吗？是的，是
right yes above her head and there was
的，在她的头上，还有
some behind her head as
一些在她的头后面，
well thank you officer I believe my
好吧，谢谢警官，我相信我那位
learned friend has some further
博学的朋友还有一些
questions for you thank you so much okay
问题要问你 非常感谢，好的，
now just a few questions please officer
现在我只想问几个问题，警官，
it was plain to you in your judgment he
你很清楚，你判断他
posed no threat to you whatsoever and so
对你不构成任何威胁，所以
you approached him and introduced
你走近他，
yourself yes you described him as
自我介绍，是的，你形容他
appearing to be calm and still but he
看起来很冷静，但他
also looked upset didn't he yes he was
也看起来 他不难过吗？是的，他
fully compliant with the instructions
完全遵守了
that you gave him is that right that's
你给他的指示，对吗？
right yes and you could see of your
是的，从你对他的观察中你可以看出，
observations of him that he still seemed
他似乎仍然
to be genuinely concerned for her yes at
真诚地关心她。是的，在
the police station he was again
警察局，他又
perfectly cooperative and compliant with
完全合作和服从
you yes no hostility or aggression being
你，没有敌意或侵略被
showed no no okay thank you very much
显示不不不好的非常感谢
indeed
确实
officer he put on the water you see him
警官他把水放了你看到他
and they
和他们
crying what' you make of that I was
哭你怎么看我
trying to look at his body language he
试图看他的肢体语言他
very sad yeah very sad and he was he was
非常 伤心，是的，非常伤心，他
crying he might be remorseful that he
哭了，他可能很后悔
got and he knows he's going a prison
，他知道他会 监狱
that's exactly it is it crocodile tears
就是这样的，是鳄鱼的眼泪
or not exactly the police officer said
还是不完全是警察说
he was all calmed like a psycho and to
他像个精神病患者一样冷静下来，
said he was calm everyone was saying
说他很冷静，每个人都说
that he's calm you know something must
他很冷静，你知道一定有什么事情
have snapped for you to pick up a hammer
让你拿起锤子
and hit somebody and and then just be
敲打 某人，然后就
normal something's snapped in your head
正常了，你的脑子里突然有什么东西突然冒出来了，
it doesn't justify what you done it's
这不能证明你所做的事情是正当的，
far as I'm concerned what would what
就我而言，什么
would justify yeah out of Interest
能证明是的，出于兴趣，
nothing there's nothing that would
没有什么能
justify I believe you can be provoked
证明我相信你会被激怒
into
去
murder I like to think if I was in that
谋杀 我想如果我处在那种
position I would walk away but if things
情况下，我会走开，但如果事情
can just escalate next thing you know
只会升级，接下来你知道
someone's got hurt if somebody said
有人会受到伤害，如果有人
something to me regarding my daughter
对我说了一些关于我女儿的事情，
and it was something so horrible who
而且这件事太可怕了，谁
knows how I'd react you don't know what
知道我会如何反应呢 不知道
you're capable of any bit of information
你能提供什么信息，
could s it back and forth I want to hear
可以来回提供吗？我想听听
his voice I just don't want to jump into
他的声音，我只是不想
conclusions about him I want to
对他妄下结论，我想
understand him as a character is he
了解他的性格，他
easily triggered I want to know why
是否容易被触发 我想知道
would he want to kill
他为什么要杀
her tell me a little bit about
她，跟我讲讲
yourself I'm I'm a bronze sculptor and
你自己我是一个青铜雕塑家，
my main income comes from Mak an
我的主要收入来自 Mak 一件
artwork John ryell was interviewed at to
艺术品 John ryell 被警方采访了
of four times by the
四次，
police the transcripts are read out word
记录被逐字逐句地读
for word for the jurors in court and
给法庭上的陪审员听，
live in a little cottage in the
住在一间小屋里 在查
countryside just outside chumford
姆福德郊外的乡村，
and I've got a big garden and I go
我有一个大花园，我种
vegetables and I work in a small
蔬菜，我在后花园的一个小作坊里工作，
Workshop in the back
garden and at different times I've had
在不同的时间，我有
like different people who help me who
不同的人帮助我，
were working for me and uh the
为我工作，呃
vegetables will GR in the
蔬菜会在花园里生长，
garden make food for everybody every
为每个人提供食物，每天
lunchtime we
午餐时间我们就
sit down almost almost like a
像一家人一样坐在一起，
family I found more I gave to people in
我发现我以这种方式给予人们更多，让
that way more productive the world we
世界更加富有成效，我们
found a way that really works it was
找到了一种真正有效的方法，这是
kind of magical kind of way working for
一种神奇的方法 为
us all that we found we look forward to
我们工作，我们发现我们期待着
going into work in the morning what
早上去上班，
wasn't something anybody resented worked
没有人会反感
together as a really good team we did
作为一个非常好的团队一起工作我们做得
that more productive we were produced
更有效率我们生产出
really high quality work all all very
高质量的工作，所有人都非常
respected never advertise some very
尊重从不做广告 非常
prestigious jobs money was kind of
有名望的工作，钱来了
coming and good it was good lots of
，这很好，很多
people were saying us it's kind of great
人都说我们这很好
when you live it's like really
当你生活的时候，感觉就像
idilic we were kind of create this kind
田园诗般，我们创造了这种
of
dream I think that appealed to
梦想，我认为这吸引了
Helen she want to be part of that I
海伦，她想成为其中的一部分，我
think ladies and gentlemen uh we're
想女士们先生们，我们
about to start uh the defendant's
即将开始，被告的
evidence I call please John
证据，我请约翰
[ 音乐]
risale uh the the burden
risale 呃，
of approving this case is on the
批准此案的负担在
prosecution but the reality is that Mr
检方，但事实是，
risdale admits that he has killed
risdale 先生承认他杀了
somebody and so he has to explain that
人，所以他必须向你解释这一点，
to you and you obviously need to listen
你显然需要
very very carefully because it's a very
非常仔细地听，因为这是一个非常
serious matter uh
严重的问题呃
indeed right uh are you happy to start
确实对呃你愿意马上开始是的
right away
yes of course Mr rise you're rather
当然先生你
quietly spoken so you're going to have
说话很轻声所以你
to just bear with me as I keep
必须忍受我因为我一直
encouraging you to speak up all right
鼓励你说话好吧
okay you are 39 years old yes I am this
好吧你是 39岁，是的，我是，这
is a first for you isn't it giving
是你的第一次，不是吗？
evidence in a Crown Court absolutely yes
在刑事法庭上作证，是的，从来
never been arrested by the police before
没有被警方逮捕过，
no or prosecuted or charged with any
没有，也没有被起诉或指控过任何
matter at all no never I want to ask you
事情，没有，我想问你
a little about your interpersonal
一点 关于你的
relationships Joe flixon is your former
人际关系Joe Flixon 是你的前
partner that's correct with whom you
伴侣吗？没错，你和他
have two children Max and
有两个孩子，Max 和
Daisy that's right and did you live
Daisy。你们住在一起吗
together yes we did and in Broad terms
？是的，我们住在一起。总的来说，你们的
was that a happy
relationship definitely very much so was
关系很幸福，你们的
there any violence within that
relationship no no did you have any
关系中是否存在暴力行为？没有，没有。
particular difficulties with other
与其他关系有什么特别的困难吗？
relationships ship no broadly there were
没有，总体来说，有
good
很好的
relationships um I um became friends
关系，嗯，我嗯，
with John in
2016 uh we started a romantic
2016 年和约翰成为朋友，我们
relationship in November
在 2017 年 11 月开始了恋爱关系，
2017 um we fell in love we moved in
嗯，我们坠入爱河，第二年我们就搬到了
together the following
一起，
year John was
约翰
incredibly
thoughtful
体贴
pensive and kindness emanates from
him his sense of Integrity makes him an
他身上散发着深思熟虑和善良，他的正直使他成为一个
incredibly conscientious man which can
非常有责任心的人，这可以
be seen in his um working life his
从他的工作生活中看出，他的
amazing vegetable garden um his
令人惊叹的菜园，他的
friendships I'd like to say that I never
友谊，我想说的是，我从未
witnessed any violence from
见过约翰有任何暴力行为，
John and um
嗯，
what has happened has deeply shocked and
发生了什么 发生的事情让我深感震惊和
saddened
悲伤，
me the picture that's being painted of
John is a like a very caring calm family
约翰被描绘成一个非常有爱心、冷静的家庭
man you know his ex basically didn't
男人，你知道他的前妻基本上没有
have a bad word to say so it's then hard
说过一句坏话，所以很难
to picture him hitting Helen three times
想象他会三次打海伦
in the head with a
头
hammer eventually you met Helen that's
最终你遇到了海伦，就是
right now did you at that stage find
现在，你当时觉得
Helen an attractive person yes very much
海伦是一个很有魅力的人吗？是的，非常有魅力，
so yes and exciting interesting
而且很令人兴奋，很有趣，很
funny intelligent but she ran me quite
聪明，但她经常带我
frequently to talk about art things we
去谈论艺术，我们
had a mutual interest in she was also of
共同感兴趣的事情，她也是 具有
an artistic temperament very much so
艺术气质，所以
right did she attract you in a physical
对吧，她有吸引你的地方吗？
sense yes she was
是的，她
uh extremely attractive extremely
非常有吸引力，
attractive in the very early stages it
在早期阶段非常有吸引力，
was very Innocent but
非常纯真，但
quite quickly it became extremely
很快就变得非常
intense
强烈，
I I think it would be fair to say that
我认为可以公平地说，
my feelings developed and in a way
我的 感情的发展，是
that I never experienced before in any
我在任何其他关系中从未经历过的，
other
relationship he comes across like he
他给人的感觉就像他
wouldn't touch a fly but you can be
不会去碰一只苍蝇，但你可以
generally nice and give nice Vibes to
总体上对别人很好，给人以良好的感觉，
people and and be also an angry person
但同时也是一个愤怒的人，
do you feel maybe he's making sure he
你觉得也许他 确保他
comes across as that yeah yeah he knows
表现出是的，是的，他知道
what he's doing doesn't he his body
自己在做什么，不是吗？他的肢体
language was completely composed it was
语言非常镇定，
interesting to see John today I'm quite
今天见到约翰很有趣，我很
a good judge of character and I
善于判断一个人的性格，我
genuinely felt like everything he said
真的觉得他说的每一句话
he sounded genuine a man deeply in love
听起来 一个真正深爱着你的男人，
but I feel like everybody else they're
但我觉得和其他人一样，他们
much to quick to judge and it's it's not
太快下结论了，这是 不
fair it's definitely murder murder for
公平，对我来说这绝对是谋杀
me
scary I I feel desperately sorry for him
可怕，我为他感到非常难过，
I do I really do I wanted to give him a
我真的想给他一个
hug I don't think he had any intention
拥抱，我不认为他有意
of killing his wife he loved her to
杀死他的妻子，他爱她
death and I think there was extenda
至死不渝，我 认为有一些
circumstances that made that man tick
情况让这个男人动了心，
when you actually see the body language
当你真正看到他的肢体语言
and the tone of voice that sort of adds
和语气时，
a bit of meat to the Bone he's gone from
他从
a calm kind loving attentive person and
一个冷静、善良、有爱心、细心的人变成了一个有血有肉的人，
over a period of time his demeanor
在一段时间里，他的举止
changed so something caused that
改变了，所以有些事情导致了他的举止发生了
demeanor to change I think the defense
变化，我认为辩方
was quite clever asking him to speak up
非常聪明，要求他说出来，
and saying that he was quite softly
并说他说话很轻柔
spoken and I think that that
，我认为这会
automatically makes some people think
自动让一些人认为
that somebody is nice or kind because
某人是善良的，因为
they're not as forceful and outspoken as
他们并不像 和其他人一样强硬和直言不讳，
other people so I don't know whether
所以我不知道
that's having some kind of impact there
这是否会产生某种影响，
was no history from the neighbors of any
邻居之间没有任何
arguing or abuse or anything like that
争吵或虐待的历史，或者类似的事情，
today you sort of hearing that statement
今天你听到这种说法，
I still don't agree with the way he
我仍然不同意 他的
behaved but I'm definitely definitely
行为方式，但我肯定，
s a lot of opinions have changed since
从那以后，很多观点都发生了改变
seeing him on the stand you could just
看到他站在证人席上，你就能
tell that he loved us you know it's just
看出他爱我们，你知道这很
sad I had a really bad view of John
伤心，我昨天对约翰的看法很不好，
yesterday that was why I think his
这就是为什么我认为他的
Testament was really important cu the
遗嘱非常重要，因为
more I hear of this today I really feel
今天我听到的越多，我就越感到
sorry for him he looks like but would so
遗憾 他看起来就像，但会的，是
yeah I think there was definitely like
的，我认为肯定是
an interesting shift but it's confusing
一个有趣的转变，但它令人困惑，
we definitely have the potential to make
我们肯定有可能做出
the wrong decision for sure normal
错误的决定，肯定是正常人，
person but
但
maybe vicious yeah it's a big
也许是恶毒的，是的，
responsibility deciding whether someone
决定一个人是否
goes to prison for life or not it's a
终身监禁是一项重大责任 不管是否，这都是一项
huge responsibility that bears down on
巨大的责任，它压在那些
people who have no training for
没有受过
this it's extremely worrying to think
这方面培训的人身上，想想
about the number of miscarriages of
justice that we might have but we will
我们可能遇到的冤假错案的数量，真是令人
never know about because we can never
担忧，因为我们永远无法
actually see the reasons for their for
真正看到冤假错案的原因
their verdicts and what's actually going
他们的裁决和
on behind closed doors it's about making
闭门会议中实际发生的事情都是为了
sure that Justice is served 12 people
确保正义得到伸张，12 名
who are coming with no
没有
experience making a decision and that is
经验的人来做决定，这令人
is
worrying I think every Jury has the
担忧，我认为每个陪审团都有
potential to make a
可能犯错误，
mistake Helen was capable of being
海伦就有可能犯这样的错误
violent in my opinion she suffers from
暴力在我看来她患有
personality disorder the defense makes
人格障碍辩方
their case she became why the more it
提出她 变成了为什么事情越
went on the more it was just me in that
拖下去，盒子里就只剩下我一个人了，
box I never would have believed I was
我从来没有想过我
capable of doing this I actually feel
能做到这一点，我真的很
very sorry for him I I do I'm actually
为他感到难过，我真的真的很
so pissed off she just went and got
生气，她就这样
killed because of her problems and
被杀了，因为 她的问题，
that's what it sounds like and they're
听起来就是这样，它们
so
unfair
太不公平了
[Applause]
[掌声]
oh
哦